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Southampton V Tottenham Hotspur The Verdict

The straw that finally broke the camel's back, for most Saints supporters the worst 45 minutes they have ever endured at St Mary's when the team finally stuck two fingers up at their manager. 8

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The straw that finally broke the camel's back, for most Saints supporters the worst 45 minutes they have ever endured at St Mary's when the team finally stuck two fingers up at their manager.

When Saints suffered their two record Premier League defeats a few years ago, there were some good excuses for those debacles, both games saw a player sent off early and they also featured injury issues and poor decisions by VAR, but this debacle had none of those.

We were 1-0 down after only 37 seconds when Spurs virtually walked through our midfield and defence and then 2 goals in a matter of minutes saw us 3-0 down with only 13 minutes on the clock.

We were a shambles, there was no spirit on the pitch & no leadership, it was a side that was clearly baffled by the tactics it was being asked to play and sick to death of being beaten most weeks because of them, this was a vote of no confidence in Russell Martin from his own squad and to be honest no one could accuse them of that before this game.

It was simply a step too far for the players and before the evening was out, for the Southampton board as well.

Once again the team news saw Russell Martin make a couple of baffling selections, Kameldeen Sulemana was one of them and he was clearly irate after 15 minutes when he was hauled off as Martin brought on another defender, he squared up to the manager and he did have a point, whatever you think of Sulemana and personally I wonder why he is in the team given how little he has done for the club in two years, but he was paying the price for Martin once again getting team and tactics so badly wrong, so he had a right to be livid.

But things didn't improve on 25 minutes it was 4-0 and the game was dead aside from how many Spurs would score.

Bizarrely Russell Martin didn't even see the 5th goal go in, he had headed down the tunnel a couple of minutes earlier, for what reason I am not sure.

When we couldn't even hold out for half time and gave Maddison all the time and room he needed to get the ball in from a tight angle, you honestly feared for double figures.

In fairness we dug in for the second half, although Spurs had definitely taken their foot off the gas and we even had the ball in the net, but of course VAR was there to prove it offside and in this case rightly so.

The crowd turned on the manager for the first time this season in open demands for him to be sacked, at least those not heading for the exits.

It was no surprise that within an hour of this game Russell Martin had been sacked by the club, truthfully it should have been 4 games ago, but we cannot turn back time now.

I take no pleasure in Russell Martin being sacked, whenever a manager arrives at the club, I want them to succeed, why would I want them to fail ! I support Southampton FC to see them win games of football and hopefully have a rare chance of glory every now and then.

But I find it hard to feel sorry for Russell Martin, his stubbornness to adapt and change one iota meant that he lived and died by his sword, he cannot claim that this sacking is unfair in any way shape or form, it is of his own making, although I strongly suspect that he won't quite see it that way himself.

Where we go from here is not yet clear, but it does give us the chance of putting this behind us and moving forward, perhaps it is too late to save us from relegation, but hopefully we can now win a few more games and without the pressure on, you never know.

We play Liverpool now on Wednesday and their focus is firstly on the Premier League, then the Champions League, thirdly the FA Cup and finally the league Cup, with the shackles taken off them there will hopefully a revived spirit in the dressing room and whoever is in charge will free the squad from having to pass and pass again.

So we have a great chance of getting to a semi final and you never know we might sneak a trip to Wembley.

So time for a revived spirit in the stands, the change has happened, we need a positive mood going forward, certainly at least until we have given Martin's successor a chance.

Against Liverpool lets go out there and play with freedom and in the stands support with passion, lets talk ourselves up as a football club, not add to the negativity of the last 4 months.

All Photos Via Reuters

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pintsizedsaint added 09:22 - Dec 16

I too always want to get behind the manager and team - but this was too much. Far too arrogant and stubborn and he paid by seeing his team down tools in the first minute of the game.

I hope he learns from this as he is a good manager.

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Southampton V Tottenham Hotspur The Preview

Will Russell Martin do something different against Spurs, ? Will Saints players be employed to utilise their own abilities, instead of being shoe horned to play way that is clearly not working. 0

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Will Russell Martin do something different against Spurs, ? Will Saints players be employed to utilise their own abilities, instead of being shoe horned to play way that is clearly not working.

Early indications are that Saints will have a few players returning from injury for the visit of Tottenham Hotspur to St Mary's, but to put it bluntly most Southampton supporters have lost faith in Russell Martin and what little positivity there still is in and around St Mary's is fast evaporating and defeat to the North London Yobbo's will just about finish it off.

But it doesn't matter what players are available, it doesn't matter who plays, the pattern is always the same, overplaying along our defensive line and individual errors costing us dearly.

Russell Martin showed his contempt for Saints supporters last weekend when referring to the travelling fans at Villa cheering when the ball was cleared long and that we then conceded within 10 seconds, he fails to point out that had Taylor Harwood-Bellis cleared his lined instead of trying to get the ball down and play, then the ball would have been safely in the stands and not nestling in our net.

Everyone bar Russell Martin seem to know what the problem is, yet he still sails blindly on, insisting that his possession football game is implemented, even when it is clear that for whatever reason, not working.

His answer is not changing the playing style to suit the players he has to hand, which would seem to be the sensible answer, but to keep changing the players to try and find a winning formula.

This has cost us dearly, we are the Premier League team with the most errors leading to goals stat, this is no coincidence.

Good managers adapt their tactics to suit the players that they have to hand, yes I have written this virtually every weekend this season, that is no coincidence either, I do so because it keeps happening and that the manager is unable or unwilling to adapt.

That is now alienating him from the fanbase, only 7 months ago most Saints fans were enjoying one of the great moments in Southampton FC history, our support was at it's best in many a year, yet now it has dropped like a stone and older fans are likening it to the 1983/84 season when then manager Ian Branfoot ironically played the polar opposite of Russell Martin's type of football, what was then called the long ball game.

Branfoot would not change and paid the price in January 1984, we just about saved our skins that season, but we cannot afford to wait till January this season.

Most of this preview so far has been about Russell Martin, that is because he has made this season all about himself, there is almost no point in speculating on what team he will put out or how they will play, we all know that the answer is there will be a scattergun approach to selection and that someone will be made a scapegoat and replaced by someone who has barely played in the previous few games, we know that we will pass the ball along the back and the opposition will be hovering waiting to press and force the inevitable mistake that will cost us a goal or two.

We are like the Titanic heading for the iceberg, but in this case we have a Captain in Russell Martin who is refusing to turn the wheel and try and avoid it, he is ploughing on regardless, because he believes that his way is the only way.

At 5.45 this evening we will see the team he has picked and wonder where a few of the players are actually playing, we will then watch us pass the ball and pass the ball again, it will rarely be passed to a forward, even more rarely, one in the opposition box.

We will then see a mistake and we will then see defeat snatched from the jaws of a draw, most will go home mumbling, some will moan on the internet, nothing will have changed on or off the pitch and we will repeat this again and again unless something changes.

There has to be a catalyst for change, clearly that catalyst is not going to be the manager, back in 83/84 the catalyst was the supporters, who stood up and said NO we will tolerate this no longer !

Where will the catalyst come now, something has to change !

All Photos Via Reuters

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Centurion added 09:37 - Dec 15

I remember we did OK in the 1983/84 season!

Colburn added 10:38 - Dec 15

What iceberg? Do people really still believe that..!? Why increase the insurance to over double just before the’Titanic’ set sail? Why were the richest who controlled America like John Aster on board yet JPMorgan and co somehow forgot the boat was leaving? How was it that Aster and co were against the Federal Reserve and JP etc set it up a year after the’iceberg’..? Nothing to see here..

You started it.. I see us as more of an oil tanker slowly turning rather than the class of an ocean liner at the moment anyway with our uninspiring number of points and goals.

We came 2nd in 1984… McMenemy was the manager. It was probably 94.. But you are right, similar dumb stubbornness but polarised styles. Although we don’t have a maverick this time round to ignore the manager and bang in 2 of the best goals seen in the Prem..

I have often disagreed about the club and manager with you Nick but I think your assessment of Martin’s style, his attitude and how it will impact us as a club is spot on. We all have him time after these mistakes cost us automatic promotion last year but to carry on regardless against more punishing opponents has reaped the rewards predicted by you, all the ex player pundits and many more. If he wants to play tippy tappy on the edge of the box then we shouldn’t have any tall clumsy centre backs on the pitch but a load of nimble midfielders, then we won’t be able to defend set pieces.. The problem isn’t having a ball retention style it’s how it’s implemented. At the moment watching us pass from the back is like watching a load of kittens running across a dual carriageway.

Boris1977 added 11:48 - Dec 15

If we had a maverick genius in the team capable of winning on his own he'd be dropped and sold.

One of the few positives of Lowe's legacy is 'north London yobbos ' which he used to refer to spuds when they put in a derisory bid for deano

COYRs

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Will Russell Martin do something different against Spurs, ? Will Saints players be employed to utilise their own abilities, instead of being shoe horned to play way that is clearly not working.

Early indications are that Saints will have a few players returning from injury for the visit of Tottenham Hotspur to St Mary's, but to put it bluntly most Southampton supporters have lost faith in Russell Martin and what little positivity there still is in and around St Mary's is fast evaporating and defeat to the North London Yobbo's will just about finish it off.

But it doesn't matter what players are available, it doesn't matter who plays, the pattern is always the same, overplaying along our defensive line and individual errors costing us dearly.

Russell Martin showed his contempt for Saints supporters last weekend when referring to the travelling fans at Villa cheering when the ball was cleared long and that we then conceded within 10 seconds, he fails to point out that had Taylor Harwood-Bellis cleared his lined instead of trying to get the ball down and play, then the ball would have been safely in the stands and not nestling in our net.

Everyone bar Russell Martin seem to know what the problem is, yet he still sails blindly on, insisting that his possession football game is implemented, even when it is clear that for whatever reason, not working.

His answer is not changing the playing style to suit the players he has to hand, which would seem to be the sensible answer, but to keep changing the players to try and find a winning formula.

This has cost us dearly, we are the Premier League team with the most errors leading to goals stat, this is no coincidence.

Good managers adapt their tactics to suit the players that they have to hand, yes I have written this virtually every weekend this season, that is no coincidence either, I do so because it keeps happening and that the manager is unable or unwilling to adapt.

That is now alienating him from the fanbase, only 7 months ago most Saints fans were enjoying one of the great moments in Southampton FC history, our support was at it's best in many a year, yet now it has dropped like a stone and older fans are likening it to the 1983/84 season when then manager Ian Branfoot ironically played the polar opposite of Russell Martin's type of football, what was then called the long ball game.

Branfoot would not change and paid the price in January 1984, we just about saved our skins that season, but we cannot afford to wait till January this season.

Most of this preview so far has been about Russell Martin, that is because he has made this season all about himself, there is almost no point in speculating on what team he will put out or how they will play, we all know that the answer is there will be a scattergun approach to selection and that someone will be made a scapegoat and replaced by someone who has barely played in the previous few games, we know that we will pass the ball along the back and the opposition will be hovering waiting to press and force the inevitable mistake that will cost us a goal or two.

We are like the Titanic heading for the iceberg, but in this case we have a Captain in Russell Martin who is refusing to turn the wheel and try and avoid it, he is ploughing on regardless, because he believes that his way is the only way.

At 5.45 this evening we will see the team he has picked and wonder where a few of the players are actually playing, we will then watch us pass the ball and pass the ball again, it will rarely be passed to a forward, even more rarely, one in the opposition box.

We will then see a mistake and we will then see defeat snatched from the jaws of a draw, most will go home mumbling, some will moan on the internet, nothing will have changed on or off the pitch and we will repeat this again and again unless something changes.

There has to be a catalyst for change, clearly that catalyst is not going to be the manager, back in 83/84 the catalyst was the supporters, who stood up and said NO we will tolerate this no longer !

Where will the catalyst come now, something has to change !

All Photos Via Reuters

Please report offensive, libellous or inappropriate posts by using the links provided.

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The latest rumours from North West London suggest that Saints will be looking to a deal with Tottenham Hotspur for a defender whom we saw a lot of last season, but do we need him.

tottenhamhotspurnews.com are linking Southampton for a loan move for Spurs defender Archie Gray, a player whom will be very familiar to Saints fans, playing against us on 3 occasions last season, firstly at St Mary's as a 73rd minute sub in our 3-1 win, then he again came on as sub in our 2-1 win at Elland Road, this time in the 62nd minute before playing the full game in the play off final at Wembley.

Despite only turning 18 in March of this year, Gray has started 40 League games for Leeds, plus 4 off the bench, since his debut at the start of last season, bizarrely 2 of those sub appearances against us.

This led to Spurs signing him in the summer for £30 million, but he has found games in the Premier League hard to come by, making just 5 appearances all of them off the bench totalling just 42 minutes.

Although he has started in all of the Europa league & Carabao cup games, it is being rumoured that Ange Postecoglou might not feel he is ready to play at regularly at the highest level yet and wants him to get games under his belt out on loan.

This is where Saints come in and he is being linked with a move to the South Coast on a temporary basis.

However primarily a right back, Saints are well served in that area, with both Yuri Sugawara and Kyle Walker Peters specialists in that position.

All Photos Via Reuters

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Back in the summer it looked likely that Kyle Walker Peters would leave Southampton for Tottenham Hotspur, but that deal fizzled out after Spurs played their usual transfer game of offering a derisory fee for a player worth much more, but that now creates problems for Saints.

Southampton have been putting up with Tottenham Hotspur's tactics of making low offers and trying to push deals through by using the players desire to play for them for over 32 years now, meaning that we have to take the low offer with a disgruntled player on our hands.

This started in 1992 when after Spurs having sold Ruddock back to Millwall, Saints subsequently paid £200,000 for the 20 year old with only a dozen League appearances to his name, 3 years later Spurs refused to pay the going rate for a player who had now played 107 Top flight appearances to his name to take him back to White Hart Lane, offering only £250,000 and took the transfer to a tribunal, eventually it being settled at £750,000 a figure that was ludicrously low, Ruddock left after a year to join Liverpool for £2.5 million.

Fast forward 9 years and the North London club employed similar tactics to sign Dean Richards, eventually Saints caved in with the player seemingly refusing to play, despite only having signed a new deal with Southampton only a few months earlier.

Famously Rupert Lowe stated that he would not cave in to a "load of North London Yobbos" he pushed the fee up to £8.1 million, much much more than Spurs had been offering.

Now it seems history is again repeating itself with Kyle Walker Peters, with no one willing to match the fee wanted by Saints and now in the last year of his contract, reports are stating that discussions have broken down, spursweb being one of the Tottenham websites making this claim.

They say that he is not willing to sign a new deal with the suggestion being that Tottenham will come a calling again in January when Southampton will be unable to turn down even a derisory offer for a player whom as a 23 year old had played just 2 games in the Premier League for Spurs and now has 140 League games for Southampton plus a couple of England caps to his name.

So the dilemma for Russell Martin is does he play KWP or not, on Saturday it seems he opted for not, Yuri Sugawara played right back and Charlie Taylor was preferred at left back to Walker Peters.

Most would agree that KWP is the better player than both in either position, but clearly there is something that is going on behind the scenes and it seems that Russell Martin, as he has done before, puts a high price on loyalty, even at the expense of playing the best player for the job.

Whether that is right, depends on what we can't see going on and what his agents are doing, in truth I would say whatever the situation, KWP has never given less than 100% for the club even last season when he surely must have been disappointed not to have been one of those who left to go back to the Premier League.

Players leave clubs all the time, in fact the only thing certain about a player at a football club, is that one day he will play his final game, personally as long as KWP is showing good form and I would say that prior to the Ipswich game, he was better than most around him, we need to play him.

Photo: Action Images

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Saints are reported to be in talks with Tottenham Hotspur about loaning a centre forward for the season, this one could be good news for Southampton supporters who want to see a genuine central striker come in.

According to hotspurhq.com Saints are in talks with Spurs regarding a loan deal for young Argentinian striker Alejo Veliz

In some respects this has some parallels to be drawn with the arrival of Armado Broja on loan from Chelsea three years ago, only Veliz is not a product of the Tottenham youth system but was signed from Argentine club Rosario Central for around £15 million last summer.

He came to the attention of Tottenham after scoring 17 goals in 53 appearances for Rosario Central in Liga Professional, the top tier in Argentina.

In the first half of last season he made 8 appearances as a sub in the Premier League, scoring in their defeat at Brighton.

Spurs then thought he would be best served with a loan in January and he joined Sevilla, but he struggled to get game time and made just 6 short appearances as a sub.

No it seems that Spurs want him to out on loan again, but they are picking their club more carefully and they feel Saints is a place where he will get a chance of first team football at the highest level.

If he comes the word is that there will be no option to buy as Spurs see him as part of their long term plans.

So comparisons can be drawn with Armando Broja, in that Veliz is a young striker who plays down the middle and nowhere else, Broja started well for Saints but petered out in the second half of the season, hopefully if he comes and lasts the distance, Veliz could do a job for Saints, even if it is just for a season.

Photo: Action Images

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